firefly Energy news

[gill.lepage]

http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=5&id=21&Itemid=81

[ted.lowe]

Awesome news!  The price is higher than i expected (i thought double lead acid), but will still be cheaper than Lithium/cycle.  i'd pay $5000 for a pack that gave me twice the range, less weight and 5 times the cycles.  Hurry up FireFly!!!

[todd.martin]

From: Tech Image for Firefly Energy
Contact: Dave Reiners (847) 2790022
ext. 233
Dave.Reiners@techimage.com
Firefly Energy Unveils First “Oasis” Truck Batteries
Battery to ensure a comfortable refuge for highway truckers seeking long runtime powering of
sleeper cab accessories
Peoria, IL – October 29, 2007 – Firefly Energy Inc. (www.fireflyenergy.com), the Peoria, Illinoisbased
leader in developing next generation carbon and graphite foam batteries for commercial
and military markets, announced today that the first preproduction
versions of its BCI Group 31
truck battery – to be marketed under the new name “Oasis” – will be available for review and
testing during the first quarter of 2008.
The company said its Oasis battery will primarily be utilized when the truck’s diesel engine is
turned off, and provide up to 50 percent longer runtimes
than competitors when powering
accessories which collectively make up a truck’s “hotel loads.” This newly branded battery will be
unveiled by Firefly Energy at its firstever
tradeshow appearance at Booth 1100 of the SAE
Commercial Vehicle Engineering Congress and Exhibition (ComVec), Oct. 30Nov.
1, 2007, in
Rosemont, IL.
“Antidiesel
engine idling regulations will soon become pervasive across the nation, and better
battery performance will be crucial in contributing to trucker safety, comfort, and productivity,”
said Ed Williams, chief executive officer of Firefly Energy. “Our Oasis battery will help ensure
truck drivers maintain a comfortable haven for their rest periods”
Earlier this month, Firefly Energy announced the commencement of its BCI Group 31 battery
development program. Battery Council International (BCI) provides standardized definitions for
physical dimensions of a wide variety of batteries, and the Group 31 size battery is a broadlydeployed
battery type in trucks. Initial availability of the battery will be in the summer of 2008,
with full production of the Oasis battery scheduled for the fourth quarter of 2008.
Through its development program, Firefly Energy is responding to truckingrelated
regulations
soon taking effect in the State of California and across the nation. On January 1, 2008, diesel
trucks operating in California face a fiveminute
idling limit. Traditional batteries will now be
challenged by the severe strain of trying to support a trucker’s various hotel loads (air
conditioning, TVs, etc.) which were previously powered by diesel engine idling. The result will be
premature battery failure, since traditional lead acid batteries cannot easily withstand repeated
deep discharging.
Firefly Energy’s Oasis battery will have a sealed valveregulated
design. The primary
characteristic of the first Firefly Energy lead acid battery is the inclusion of a high surface area,
noncorrodible
and light weight carbon foam material. Firefly Energy’s 3D carbon foam
unleashes the high power potential of lead acid chemistry which was impossible to achieve in
the past. This technology not only reduces the lead content making the batteries smaller and
lighter, but additionally enables faster, deeper and more reliable discharges and recharges. This
significantly extends the battery’s life, makes it more environmentally friendly, and less
expensive than lithium and nickel battery chemistries.
The company said conventional deepcycle
lead acid batteries used in trucking start showing
sizeable performance dropoff
after some 200 deep discharge cycles.
Mil Ovan, Firefly Energy Senior Vice President and CoFounder,
said that the Oasis brand was
developed because of the strong fit of the Firefly carbon foam technology to the world of
commercial trucking. “What does the truck’s sleeper cab mean to a driver who just finished a 14
hour shift, arriving at a Palm Springs California truck stop on a hot August night, and it’s still 95
degrees outside? Undoubtedly, it’s his oasis” Ovan said. “The greater run time and consistent
performance of Firefly’s coolerrunning
foam battery will enable truckers to get a comfortable
night’s sleep for the next day’s drive. A rested driver is a safe driver”, Ovan concluded.
The Oasis battery will be valuable in trucking because it will offer continuous power through the
discharge process, a fast recharge to 100 percent capacity, excellent vibration resistance and
greater coldstarting
capabilities. Typical battery life is extended since sulfation is reduced. When
tested in cold weather extremes at minus 20°C, the batteries were capable of delivering above 65
percent of their rated “room temperature” capacity compared to 20 percent or less for standard
Group 31 batteries. This can help minimize alternator damage incurred while attempting coldweather
engine starts when batteries are low.
Additional characteristics of the Oasis battery include:
Energy Density – Because the Firefly design utilizes an efficient highsurface
area foam, more of
the available chemistry can be engaged, leading to greater efficiencies in weight and size.
Heat dissipation – Batteries with carbon foam electrodes instead of heavy lead plates are able
to transfer heat out of the battery as rapidly as it is generated. Operating heat of the battery is
lower, is also generated more uniformly, and is dissipated more rapidly, resulting in longer battery
life in many applications.
Vibration resistance – The low mass of Firefly’s 3D cells along with the better retention of the
chemistry within the pores of the foam help make the Oasis battery more resistant to vibration.
About Firefly Energy, Inc.
Firefly Energy (www.fireflyenergy.com) is a Peoria, Illinoisbased
battery technology company
developing a portfolio of next generation lead acid battery technologies, enhancing lead acid
battery performance for major portions of the $30 billion worldwide battery marketplace. Firefly’s
first innovation, the carbon foambased
battery technology, can deliver a unique combination of
high performance, extremely low weight and low cost, all in a battery which utilizes the best
aspects of lead acid chemistry while overcoming the corrosive drawbacks of this same chemistry.
This product technology delivers to battery markets a performance associated with advanced
battery chemistries (Nickel Metal Hydride and Lithium), but for onefifth
the cost, and can be both
manufactured as well as recycled within the existing lead acid battery industry’s vast
infrastructure. The company is backed by multibillion
dollar product companies such as
Caterpillar (www.caterpillar.com NYSE: CAT), BAE Systems (www.baesystems.com London
Stock Exchange over the counter symbol: BAESY), and Husqvarna (www.husqvarna.com Other
OTC: HSQVY.PK). Additional investors include Chicagoarea
Venture Capital firm KB Partners (
www.kbpartners.com), and the State of Illinois’ Illinois Finance Authority,
# # # # #

[todd.martin]

Here is the text on their Oasis Group 31 Battery Brochure.  The spec. sheet for the battery will be published in December.


5407 N. University St. • Arbor Hall, 2nd Floor • Peoria, IL 61614 • 309.690.7500
www.fireflyenergy.com
CARBON AND
GRAPHITE FOAMS
Technology that’s changing
the rules of the road.
Developed by scientists at Firefly Energy,
carbon foam is a material that’s revolutionizing
the battery industry. Compared to lead plates
— one of the main components of most
conventional truck batteries — carbon foam
delivers longer service life, increased energy
efficiency and better performance under
extreme conditions. That’s why we used it to
create our revolutionary Oasis Group 31 battery.
Oasis’ carbon foam design resists sulfation
and corrosion (two of the primary causes of
failure in lead-acid batteries), while dramatically
increasing the surface area within the battery,
resulting in greater energy capacity, faster
recharges, and deeper discharge capability.
Available summer 2008
For complete specifications,
see our Oasis battery spec sheet.

[todd.martin]

Make the move to better,
more reliable power.
Ready for whatever
the road brings.
We’re way of ahead of the competition.
For longevity, dependability and performance,
the Oasis deep-cycle battery is the clear choice.
To learn more about its revolutionary carbon foam
technology, visit www.fireflyenergy.com.
50+ Percent Greater Cycle Life
Most lead-acid batteries show a drop-off in
performance after 200 deep discharge cycles.
Testing shows that Firefly batteries are more reliable
and longer lasting.
Greater Energy Density
With more energy-generating surface area, the Oasis
battery is ultra-efficient. It’s capable of delivering up
to 45 percent more energy per liter, resulting in longer
run times than any other Group 31 battery.
Performs in Extreme Cold and Heat
Thanks to carbon foam, Oasis delivers 65 percent
of its rated power capacity at -20° C, a temperature
that renders other batteries inert. Plus, the foam
electrodes distribute heat more uniformly inside the
battery, eliminating “hot spots” that typically cause
active material wear-out in conventional batteries.
Resists Vibration and Sulfation —
Two Major Battery Killers
Oasis can power through hundreds of hours of
continuous vibration without giving an inch on
performance. It also has the ability to bounce
back from long periods of inactivity, because
the foam resists the formation of destructive lead
sulfate crystals, which prohibit a return to full charge
in conventional batteries.
Superior Charge Acceptance and Low
Self-Discharge Characteristics
Oasis’ unique construction allows it to recharge up to
three times faster and hold that charge longer than
any conventional lead-acid battery.
As emissions standards get tougher, drivers
will increasingly be unable to rely on their
engines to power “hotel loads” overnight.
Fortunately, the Oasis deep-cycle battery
can keep drivers comfortable all night long
–– with plenty of energy to spare. Plus, it
meets all the dimensional specifications for
Group 31 batteries and features a sealed
valve-regulated design, so both installation
and maintenance are a breeze.

[ted.lowe]

I want them!  They are more expensive than i thought, but have a very long cycle life.

[todd.martin]

Today, the Oasis Battery Spec sheet was published on Firefly's website:  http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=273&Itemid=100

I have uploaded the PDF file of the spec sheet into our file bank.  If anyone can comment on whether 100Ah for a Group 31 battery, weighing 70.4lbs is good, I'd appreciate it.

Best regards,

Todd Martin

[ted.lowe]

Thanks Todd.  Finally... after a couple of years of talking about it!

i compared the Oasis FF12D1‐G31 with the Trojan AGM-31 (which appears to be it's nearest competitor).

Their sizes and weights are almost identical.  The 10 hr rates are comparable.  So, i'm a bit confused, i was expecting the energy density of the Firefly to result in more juice in a smaller package or more juice in the same size package... hmmm.....Maybe they made some compromises when the decided to market it as both an SLI and deep cycle.

The Oasis' cold performance is way better and the number of cycles (700 to 100% DoD!) is vastly superior.

i can barely wait until Summer 2008 to see what the $$$ is going to be!

Has anybody been reading the EVDL discussion on this new bat and care to summarize here?

[todd.dore]

If you look at the white paper (link) from the Firefly website, they compare a standard AGM G31 price of $200 per batter to the Firefly cost of $400 per battery.  Don't know how close the real pricing would be.  Assuming a 20kWh pack (a rather large pack for garage-EVers), this means approximately 17 or 18 batteries.  This would cost about $8,000 for the batteries - a pretty steep price.  Then, you would need 12V regs on each one and a good charger - another $2k - $3k.  Total cost - $10k - $11k.  But, IF the batteries work as advertised, you would have about 3X longer life, and of course, greater range.

[richard.miller]

I read the Firefly specs and I am not too impressed. Unless I have missed something they compare pretty well to the Hawker Oddessy 2150. 2150 cranking amps, group31, 75lbs, 99.5 Ah, 4 year warranty, Military construction, with a proven track record that is undeniable at a price of 304.65 from the battery store .com. Yes you have to pay for shipping but I bet we can get a local distributers price that is close and pick them up ourselves. When they come out with their second generation batteries that are some fraction of the weight I'll gladly plunk down 400 or so but not at this weight.

[ted.lowe]

Thanks Rick... i'm glad i'm not crazy (ie, missing something).  i expected higher punch/lb from all previous "talk"!

[eddie.roman]

Yeah, from all the discussion on their website you expect a 4:1 power to weight ratio compared to standard LB deep cycle batteries.  A real dissapointment.

[todd.martin]

Here's what Firefly has to say:

Message: 19
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:55:22 -0800 (PST)
From: shred <shred@scwi.us>
Subject: [EVDL]  News from Firefly
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <15165377.post@talk.nabble.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8


Here is some email correspondence with Firefly.

Q--When and where can I buy one or 2 of these batteries & how much will they
cost?

A--"Most likely early 2009 at the earliest.  This battery is custom designed
for Class 8 truck market for the no-idle suite loads.  We are expecting late
summer we will be ramping up production to commercial level and hope to be
at a run rate of about  9,000 units a month in the early 2009 time frame.
As you can expect with these batteries performing over 1100 cycles at 100%
depth of discharge and still cycling with over 90% of retained capacity we
have the major truck OEM?s and large fleets already standing in line.   As
for price we are going to be 25% plus over the premium AGM batteries on the
market.  I cannot give the specifics until we get our new equipment in place
for mass production so that we can assess scrap rates, process variables
etc. and the unknown cost of lead late this year.
Keep an eye on our website late summer as we move forward with establishing
our top tier distribution network"

Q--When and where can I buy one or 2 of these batteries? How much do they
cost? Any discounts for electric car clubs? Also, it seems that the specs
for actual batteries are not quite as good as what was anticipated??? They
seem to be heavier and larger than expected???
Do you expect them to be better as time goes on?

A--Hello,
I am the product manager for Firefly Energy.  There might have been a
misunderstanding in the expectations of the Firefly Energy G31 when you
state larger and heavier than anticipated.  First the G31 is a BCI standard
for this size battery.  You are not allowed to make the battery smaller or
larger or it cannot be classified as a G31.  There are many BCI sizes that
Firefly will be developing over the next several years.  As far as weight.
Since the G31 has to be a standard size we opted to put as much energy as we
can in the given envelope and the Firefly battery is significantly lighter
that other G31 batteries in the 200 min  plus reserve capacity range.   The
specification performance posted to date is the first iteration of the G31.
We fully expect the performance to increase significantly as we have two
more design iterations planned before commercial production begins late this
summer.

David Ginder
Product Manager
firefly energy
Office: 309-690-7540
Cell: 309-339-7390
Fax:309-690-7515
dginder@fireflyenergy.com
http://www.fireflyenergy.com/

[ted.lowe]

Thanks Todd!  This is encouraging... only 25%+ $ premium, 1100 cycles to 100 DoD, still at 90%.  Different sizes.  Availability to us low-lifes in 2009 (maybe about the time i'll need a new pack).

[ted.sanders]

Thought this might be interesting.

Re: [EVDL] News from Firefly
From: EVDL Administrator (evpost@drmm.net)
Sent:Thu 1/31/08 11:45 PM
Reply-to:Electric Vehicle Discussion List (ev@lists.sjsu.edu)


To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu

On 29 Jan 2008 at 18:12, wjdennis@qwest.net wrote: > Yet this Group 31 battery of theirs gets between 33 and 37 wh/kg, so> what was all the hype about? Yep, the best lead can do around 35 wh/kg right now.  We've been sort of stuck at that level for about a decade.   Some years back I calculated a garden variety USBMC 31TMX at 31 wh/kg.  A Trojan 5SHP did about as well.  A US 8VGC was about 29 wh/kg.  Those numbers were at 75 amps.   Most AGMs fare a tiny bit worse because they are usually acid-starved.  I calculated Optima group 31s at about 27 wh/kg. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USAEVDL Administrator