EV'S WITH GAS/GEN BACKUP

[wayne.mcguire]

ERIC POSTED A LINK ON A GUY IN KANSAS BY THE NAME OF GOODMAN THAT IS CONVERTING LARGE GAS HOGS TO ELECTRIC WITH GAS/DIESEL GENERATORS TO BACKUP THE BATTERIES.

WHEN IT'S TIME FOR ME AND OTHERS TO CONVERT TO ELECTRIC, I WOULD BE HELPFUL TO HAVE TO SOME BACK GROUND INFORMATION ON WHAT IS AVAILABLE OR REQUIRED TO ADD A GENERATOR.

I'M SURE THERE ARE MANY OR US THAT WOULD LIKE TO VENTURE MORE THAN 40 MILES FROM HOME.

WAYNE

[terry.kane]

I've heard mixed reviews of Goodwin's work.  He's been getting a lot of press but I hear a lot of his suff is impractical and he "embellishes" performance statistics to reporters.

I've been interested in the subject of range-extending trailers (RET) since I saw the old AC Propulsion concept for the TZero.  It's interesting to note that they abandoned this concept as being outside their sphere of expertise (being Electrical Engineers).

In my opinion, small, highly efficient diesel engines that can run biodiesel are the best bet for RETs.  I heard that Daimler has just such an engine in design, based on their new, super low polluting bluetec engines.
http://www.daimlerchrysler.com/dccom/0-5-1003148-1-1003157-1-0-0-0-0-0-36-7165-0-0-0-0-0-0-0.html

I'm watching this closely as I'm as attracted to biodiesel as to EV's.

[matt.kenigson]

This is a project I'm interested in taking on, but I'll need help.  I heard from a friend there is a glut of highly efficient and clean used diesel engines in Japan.  I don't know if it's cost-effective to try to get them over here or if there would be import restrictions, etc... 

I can write all of the controller logic for the genset and figure out the data acquisition from battery sensors, etc... but here are a LOT of little tasks involved in getting this project to work.  I'm going to start on the project plan in my spare time and should have something I can show by the next meeting.  Is there anyone else interested in working on this with me?

Matt

[ted.lowe]

Definitely, count me in!  We're basically talking about a Chevy Volt-like series-hybrid (electric drive only, ICE genset charges batteries).  i'd like to challenge the FVEAA and all takers to build the first homebrew bio-diesel series hybrid (and run it on free veggie oil:-).  The bio-D is especially important to me, since diesel fuel is equally evil as gasoline.

Here's a story about Thailand using used cooking oil (from Thai Restaurants, i guess just natively called Restaurants:-).  Besides giving the restaurant owners a financial incentive to recycle their oil (instead of landfilling it), it has improved their air quality by 50%!

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/tech/2008/01/23/delacruz.snow.day.call.cnn

Finally, the diesel motors from Japan probably wouldn't pass the new American standard for low-sulphur diesel fuel emissions (which went into effect in Jan 1, 2007).
 

[ricky.hazen]

Sounds like an iteresting concept to me - Who's gathering when & where to do what??

[matt.kenigson]

I could be wrong on this (some research would probably be prudent) but it was my impression that emissions standards in Japan even six or seven years ago were higher than our new low-sulphur clean diesel standards.  That's why I thought used crate motors from there might actually be a good choice.  Still, it would probably be a lot smarter to reduce project complexity by starting out with a clean engine that wouldn't require a lot of logistics.  Maybe we can find one here in the States.

Along that train of thought, has the FVEAA had much luck in the past getting industry sponsors for components such as the components we're talking about (small clean diesel motor, generator, sensors, etc...)?  I've had a little bit of luck in the past partnering with Middle Tennessee State University and some of the work they're doing there.  They have a 10KW array and produce a lot of hydrogen to support their EV, hydrogen-EV hybrid, hydrogen-only, etc. projects.  In case you're wondering, they don't fool with fool cells .  They burn their H2.  It's an interesting program and the data collector and genset controller work we'll have to do would help them on a similar H2-burning genset project they're doing.  Maybe they can help us with parts or expertise.  We'll still probably need a sponsor for the motor itself, unless we want to do this in stages and start out with a less advanced (less clean) motor until we get it all working and then look for a motor sponsor at that point.  That would be my recommendation.

I hesitate to mention this because I don't want to clutter the objectives of the project but once we have this thing working I'd love to also experiment with H2-injection techniques to get the motor to run even cleaner and more efficiently.  That's for later.

Matt

[matt.kenigson]

Sounds like an iteresting concept to me - Who's gathering when & where to do what??

Well if anyone wants to help me with the project plan I'd be happy to meet with folks somewhere in the western burbs.  I'm trying not to stray too far from the Lisle-Naperville-Aurora corridor since I'm driving a horrible guzzler until my baby is back on the road.  I never realized just how badly cold weather affected range.  Nashville doesn't get anywhere near this cold for long.

Matt

[ricky.hazen]

I'm in bolingbrook (almost right next door).
I am hoping to "actually make it" to the 944 session tomorrow (subject to change).
Unless folks "just can't wait to discuss this" perhaps a sidebar during intermission at the next FVEAA meeting, unless the organization would rather not "cross technologies".
Yes, I'm looking forward to exploring this some more.

[tim.moore]

wrong link Ted

[tracy.talley]

I'm also interested in this serial hybrid concept.
Please notify me of any meetings.

Tracy Talley
TMT E-MOTION
Homer Glen, Illinois
www.tmtemotion.com

[terry.kane]

First of all, thanks to Matt for charging ahead on this "project".
 
I'd like to volunteer my house as a potential venue for meeting on this topic.  I'm in Glen Ellyn, near Butterfield & IL-53; only a couple of minutes from I-88 & I-355.  I know Matt is staying in Aurora right now.

I have done a lot of exploration into efficient diesel generators, as well as hydrogen combustion, etc.  I have a few contacts in this area, as well, that might be of some help.  I have a few books and ebooks on the subject, too.

After talking to Jim Dawson last meeting, I'm almost certain that my Fiat, once converted, will not be able to get me to work in Palatine or Chicago on a single charge alone, assuming highway speeds.  This is necessary for me.  The thought of a range-extending clean/biodiesel genset on a small trailer is ideal.  Perhaps someday when a better battery technology becomes available and affordable, I can retire my genset or use it only for "long trips".  Until then, I love the idea of at least getting 60+ MPG and then only burning carbon neutral biodiesel.

If you haven't looked at the following site, it's worth the time.  Steven Harris has put together a significant collection of resources that explore alternative fuels mainly outside EV's.  I have his "Hydrogen car DVD" and the book Solar Hydrogen Civilization, among others.  I look forward to being involved in this effort!

http://www.knowledgepublications.com

[matt.kenigson]

Thanks, Terry.  I guess the next thing for us to do is to go ahead and set some meeting times.  Since I travel back to Nashville every other weekend and my wife comes up at least once a month, I only have one weekend a month here and it's usually devoted to doing laundry...

So if no one objects, I'd love to try to set something up during the week.  I've asked my boss and he has told me we can use our proprietary online project management tool to define the project.  That would allow us all to contribute remotely to the project plan.  That will be set up in the next week.  I figure we can meet once in a while (monthly? semi-monthly?) and do the rest online.

As far as scheduling the first meeting, I'll defer to Terry since he's offering to host.  Tuesdays are generally best for me, but not next Tuesday. 

Matt

[wayne.mcguire]

IF YOU SET UP A TIME AND PLACE FOR MEETINGS ON GEN BACKUP PLEASE COUNT ME IN.

I'M STILL IN THE PLANNING STAGES FOR MY CONVERSION AND THIS WOULD BE A PLUS IN MY DESIGN.

THANKS
WAYNE

[terry.kane]

Matt & all,

Tuesdays work for me.  By the time I get home from work and fix supper for my son and me, we'd be ready around 7PM any night.  If we want to schedule the first meeting for Tuesday, February 12, that would be great.  Let's take the logistics off-line and anyone interested in attending (Glen Ellyn near Route 53/Butterfield Rd) please email me at terrypk@yahoo.com.  I will build an email distribution list for the sub-team and we'll correspond that way and post updates to this forum.

-Terry Kane
 terrypk@yahoo.com
 630-776-1405 (mobile)

[ted.lowe]

Great initiative folks!  Count me in!  We don't need to go offline with the project though, let's keep it open and available to all FVEAAers.

i can make the Tues. Feb 12th meeting if you host it Terry.

Now let's talk some details...

Is this project in fact the creation of a Homebrew Series Hybrid ?  (Like the Volt but cheaper:-)
Does the Hybrid necessarily indicate that we need to use two (or more) types of fuel ?  Or drives ?
What are the goals ?  Extended Range ? Performance ?  One-size-fits-all ?

i've heard of a number of different kind of hybrids:

- commercial parallel (Prius, Lexus, Ford Escape)
- commercial with homebrew mods aka current plugin-parallel (modified Prius)
series (Volt)
- converted plug-in parallel hybrid (front wheel gasoline drive and rear wheel electric drive, aka adding electric - drive to a front wheel ICE)

Can i toss out a name that is a bad pun and way too early:

FVOLT = Fox Valley Obviously Liberating Transportation

i think we have the smarts and motives to pull off something cool here folks!